Posts by cognizant dissident

14

are witnesses dumb?

by under_believer in

jw
friends

they're merely ignorant.

and why, you ask, are they ignorant?

in august, 2007 a professor at quaid-i-azam university in islamabad, pakistan named pervez hoodbhoy wrote an essay titled science and the islamic worldthe quest for rapprochement.

The scientific method is alien to traditional, unreformed religious thought. Only the exceptional individual is able to exercise such a mindset in a society in which absolute authority comes from above, questions are asked only with difficulty, the penalties for disbelief are severe, the intellect is denigrated, and a certainty exists that all answers are already known and must only be discovered.

Amen to that brother Underbeliever! I went to university on a science scholarship. When I told my father (an elder and PO) that I had won a scholarship for biology and chemistry he was very upset. He asked me what I was going to do with a degree in science, build a bomb? He also started complimenting me regularly by calling me a clever little bitch! When I called him on his hostile attitude, he claimed he meant it as a "term of endearment". I have never heard my father address me this way in 40 years.

A few years later, when I told them I was no longer a witness, he asked me why. I gave him some of my reasonings (mostly science based). When he could not answer my reasonings with logic, he said I had traded the "truth" for worldly intellectualism. I had taken the easy way out according to him. I laughed at that statement at the time, but perhaps he was right. How much effort must one put forth in this information age to keep up the level of ignorance that JW's demand of themselves and their followers. Keeping those blinders on 24/7 is a full time job nowadays. It probably is easier to accept reality than to deny it.

Cog

84

Are Your Morals The Same As When You Were A Witness?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i guess that i can say, from a biblical viewpoint, anyone that practices "fornication", having sex without being married, would be "immoral".

other than, i don't lie or cheat or steal or even kill anyone else!

do you view yourself a "moral" or "immoral" person and why?

cognizant dissident

I think we can define morality as caring about ourselves and others and subscribing to the maxim of "do no harm".

Minimus, many people do consider war immoral because millions are indiscrimanently killed.

Female genital mutilation is "harmful" to the girl regardless of what local custom teaches. It is phsyically torturous and provides no health benefits whatsoever. Many girls die from infection from the procedure. It can make menstruation, sex, and childbirth dangerous. Ironically, the procedure is not at all about doing what is "good" for the female. It is about denying women's sexuality, sexual pleasure, controlling her, trying to make her less promiscuous and more "moral".

The reason many people to not consider unmarried sex as immoral, is because when practiced by two consenting, responsible adults who agree to do it without promising long term commitment and agree to take responsiblity for any possible negative outcomes, then it could be argued that they are not harming anybody and it is nobody's business.

How many sexual partners makes one promiscuous? Is it the same number for men as women? Who gets to decide? Is someone who marries and divorces ten times without technically committing adultery (say for incompatibility) less promiscuous than a long-term monogomous couple who decide not to subject themselves to others arbitrary standards by getting legally married?

Cog

51

may need some help soon

by Missanna in

ok so i send my father a letter telling him several reasons i do not believe the witnesses are jehovah's organization.i also told my father at the end of the letter that i was setting some boundaries once and for all.

that i would not be emotionally blackmailed or verbally abused anymore that if he wanted to talk to me as a father then i welcome that and if he can't do that then i do not wish to comunicate with him.

i sent it about a week ago and was waiting for all hell to break loose but nothing happend.

cognizant dissident

How you answer will depend on what you honestly believe. I was asked similiar kinds of questions by my father (an elder and PO). Since I no longer believe in the Bible or even God, I had no desire to argue the "truth" of JW's from a biblical or theological perspective. One can argue theology and interpretations endlessly and make no progress as any of us ex-pioneers who have got in our time by arguing with other fundamentalists in the ministry can attest to.

My approach, as suggested to me by my counselor, which I found to be very effective, was to stay away from debates and arguments as much as possible. It is very difficult to prove one is right or some one else is wrong when you are debating in the realm of beliefs and faith. I simply stated my assertion that I saw no evidence to believe that JW's are Jehovah's organization, the Bible is the word of God, or that God even exists. When they then proceeded to lay out the usual JW lines of evidence and reasoning (as if I hadn't heard it all before and used it on other people at the doors myself), I simply stated my belief that the evidence was neither logical or convincing to me. I was not arguing the "truth" of it, but simply stating what was true for me, ie disbelief. It is very hard to keep up an argument with someone who does not try to prove you wrong but simply says they do not believe your evidence or find it convincing. My stepmother, at one point, said to me "prove to me that Jehovah doesn't exist!" I asked her why I would want to do that? If she is happy believing in Jehovah and living her life as a JW that is fine with me. I have no desire to convert her to my way of thinking. (This also throws them off a bit because they expect all "apostates" to be dogmatically trying to work against them and the organization.)

As you did above, throw the ball in their court and let them prove to you it is God's organization. You do not need to be claiming an absolute truth. You are just stating your belief. Repeat like a broken record as needed.

Please give us the details of her response. Very interested to hear how it turns out.

Cog

51

may need some help soon

by Missanna in

ok so i send my father a letter telling him several reasons i do not believe the witnesses are jehovah's organization.i also told my father at the end of the letter that i was setting some boundaries once and for all.

that i would not be emotionally blackmailed or verbally abused anymore that if he wanted to talk to me as a father then i welcome that and if he can't do that then i do not wish to comunicate with him.

i sent it about a week ago and was waiting for all hell to break loose but nothing happend.

cognizant dissident

Great response! You are a very clever young woman. Since she is making the claim that Jehovah is using the organization you put the onus on to her to prove her claim instead of on you to disprove it. Great strategy. Also, you asked her to use the exact criteria as she requested you to use, no outside source material. All said with calmness and respectful attitude. Many people can learn from your mature and intelligent way of handling your family Misanna. You are assertive without being aggressive.

Cog

89

Describe In 1 Word How You Now Feel About Your Life Right Now

by minimus in

jw
friends

cognizant dissident

ambivalent is my middle name!

Cognizant ambivalent dissident

32

do i go with my gut instinct???(long, im sorry, but i need help)

by theinfamousone in

jw
friends

so, simply put, i am in love... and love makes a man do some really stupid things.... love makes a pretty damn intelligent man feel pretty damn stupid quite often as well... so here's my story... i have been dating this girl for almost a year now... she is beautiful, sweet, and really just everything i imagined in a life mate... she lives with me... she doesnt work, while i do full time, and also go to school... i make very good money, so that does not bother me... but heres where it all begins... a few months ago, she went to cuba with her sisters, and imoved her into my place while she was gone, her idea, not mine.. now we keep our condoms in a certain place.... anyways, her box of condoms was gone, with her... when she comes back, our little box of condoms is empty.... instead of asking her about it, i explained it to myself as she must have given them to her sister.... .

while i am gone at work, i usually give her a call on my breaks... i notice that she never answers the phone between 6-8 pm.. home or cell... her explanation is that she is always in the shower... the problem with that is that she is always coming out of the shower when i get home.... i get home at around nine... so either she is taking a 3 hour shower or she is taking two showers a night..... she disappears off the face of the earth everytime she goes home to visit her family... like shes not home, shes not answering her phone and only ever calls me when she is in her car....her explanation is that she is at a cousins house.. conveniently, one that i do not know..... last night she went to a wedding... it was over at 11, i know this because she had told me, nd a friend of mine tht was there said that it ended then,,, it was a dry wedding, no dancing... very religious people... i was supposed to meet her at 130 today, i got to the train station that she was coming to, 15 minutes early and waited over an hour there... finally as i decied to walk back home, she gives me a call... i will be home at 5, meet me at the train.... of course, i have been calling her since last night at 11 to tell her i would meet her at 130 as she had planned... i made brunch for her, which is now in the garbage... i was scared shitless she had been hit by a car or dead since her phone has been off since last night.... i asked her why she is so late, i was helping move things until 3am last night... bull shit.. all the gifts were given prior to the weding and the bride and groom had already moved into their new place.... i know because she has told me in the past.....her phone was dead according to her... but all of the sudden, she is able to use it.... no charger, but she can use it..... i did confront her once, and she exploded on me!!!!

like screamed and screamed and said she was insulted i even asked... textbook defensive behaviour right????.

cognizant dissident

Sorry, InfamousOne, it doesn't look good.

You are such an awesome guy. It is obvious you love her to have put up with as much as you have. If you need proof positive then come home early and surprise her or have a friend or PI follow her on one of her trips. Taking the condoms to Cuba shows "intent" imo. There are plenty of hunky Cuban men who want to hook up with Americans and Canadians to get a ticket out of the country. It is a pretty well known scenario down there.

Hopefully, having such a bad experience at such a young age won't sour you off women permanently. She may be beautiful and sweet but she doesn't show much respect or depth of character. Why doesn't she work? Is she healthy? In school? There are lots of beautiful and sweet girls (with character and respect added) that would love to have a catch like you. The sooner you move on, then the sooner you will find her.

Cog

23

NEED HELP finding info on disassociating those who aren't active.....

by Lady Liberty in

jw
friends

dear friends,.

i need help finding when, how and where i might find that announcement..publication...where the new procedure was not to announce ones as being dfed..but now they were to be annnounced as "no longer one of jehovahs witnesses".

with that change, it made it so that those who were not active could technically be announced.

cognizant dissident

Cyber:

Did they give any instructions to the elders on what to do in the case of someone who wouldn't answer the question, "Do you still consider yourself one of Jehovah's Witnesses"? If I was ever asked that question, I planned to follow one of their tactics of answering a question with a question. "Why do you ask? Why do you need to know? What do you intend to do with that information?" If they insisted on asking again, I would say, "I prefer not to answer as I am a private person who would like to keep my feelings and opinions to myself and only discuss them with people I know very well and trust with my innermost thoughts." I intended to say this with the utmost gentleness and respectful manner so that they could not accuse me of having a rebellious bad attitude.

Has anyone ever known anyone who responded this way to an elder's visit and elder's questions. What was the response? Was action still taken against them?

Cog

37

You Must Push, Push, Push To Accomplish More, More, More

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

you must push, push, push to accomplish more, more, moreone of the major reasons in leaving the organization was the pressure exerted on the individual.

in the congregation.

it always seemed as if your best was never good enough and more could .

cognizant dissident

Mary, I also calculated the amount of time I actually spent as a publisher who did everything suggested by the society that a "spiritually strong" publisher would do and it worked out to exactly 20 hours per week total. The equivalent to a part time job! To full time mothers or those who are employed full time that is a huge time commitment! Add up the time commitment for auxiliary pioneers, regular pioneers, MS and elders and it is probably double that at least! Eye opening when one does the math! Cog

20

HELP!!!

by JK666 in

i have been in a relationship with a woman for 4 years.

we have gone through a lot of difficult things together, and always seemed to work it out.

but in the last few months things have gotten to the point that i am considering calling it quits.

cognizant dissident

Just a few thoughts on depression. I have studied a bit about it in nursing and also have first hand experience having been on anti-depressants off and on for 10 years (currently off). Depression is not a strict either/or scenario. It can be both situational and chemical at the same time and in the same person! So there is no room to be dogmatic. Every case must be looked at and evaluated individually.

As you probably know, long term substance abuse can alter the brain's biochemistry permanently. This alone could make you prone to depression. However, from how you have described your relationship, there seems to be plenty in this situation that could feed depression. The best approach is to treat from a multi-modal perspective. Address the relationship issues and any possible physical/chemical imbalances. This takes time and can be trial and error situation, often two steps forward, one step back. It is important not to become discouraged when this happens. It will not be accomplished over night. It's a journey.

Bottom line, though, is you are very vulnerable and need relationships that are overwhelmingly supportive and positive. If you feel the relationship with your sponsor is positive and is helping you in your recovery, that is all you need to know. Try to look at the long-term aspect of your relationship with your girlfriend. Has it been other-wise positive and you are just going through a rough patch? If so, it may be worth working it out. If it has been more negative then positive and you feel it is dragging you down further into depression, then it might be better to end it. Depression can skew our perspective to the negative though. Getting the opinion of a neutral third party who can see the two of you interacting can be invaluable? Sponsor is not neutral. It is his job to be on your side!

Hope this is helpful,

Cog

21

I am angry.

by mtsgrad in

jw
friends

my marriage is falling apart.

i loved her, she no longer loves me.

i was so angry i only slept for 45 minutes last night and worked for 14 hours.

cognizant dissident

My marriage is falling apart. I loved her, she no longer loves me.

Did you notice that you didn't write "I love her", you wrote "I love-d her". Past tense. The same thing you say about her. She no longer loves me. When you use past tense you are saying you no longer love her either. So why are you angry? You both feel the same way. Does someone have to be singularly to blame? Can you both be partly to blame? So what is to be gained by anger or blame? A feeling of victimization? A feeling of self-righteousness? Can you just move beyond anger and blame and just move on and get on with being happy for the rest of your life?

Cog (just asking)